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MJ Ready Thin Clients on Sale Now From Just $55 Shipped!!
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spoolin01
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 24
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

murugan wrote:
Thanks spoolin01.
In reply to "I'm curious though, about the need to match so closely. Can't you just get the VIA drivers for their CPU and chipset (get a bunch of them if it's not clear exactly which to use), and stuff them into either the image, or onto the flash, during the imaging of your flash?"

The Wyse 94xx has the 500Mhz Samuel CPU whereas the VIA Ezra is a 800 Mhz CPU. Not only are the CPUs different but the mobo chipsets are too.
Does the CPU speed matter? Wyse underclocked their CPUs from what I can tell, probably for heat output. Wikipedia implied the Ezra is pretty much the same code as the Samuel, so if true, wouldn't the drivers be the same, or probably good enough for a first pass?
Quote:

As I said, the XPe image is built for a specific platform because it has only the supporting software for the specific devices and that's why it is so small. With that said, I cannot use just any XPe image as it will not boot.
Understood, but if you're going for the best shot, doesn't the Wyse Samuel image (9450) seem like the closest match? I haven't found any info on your mobo, can you tell what chips you've got? I just don't know much about this - how finely matched the drivers need to be or how thinly the builds shave the driver sets that VIA released, if at all.
Quote:

There is no "during the imaging of your flash" - the XPe OS for the TC is built on a production platform and targeted for the computer or TC or tablet etc that will run it. The image created on the production platform is then written to the flash (imaging process) which is nothing more than a linux dd command. (in simple terms: dd if=production image of=flash bs= count= etc)
Once the image is loaded, while in the PXE environment, it's still under linux control. When you leave that, before it boots to Windows for the first time, can't you take the CF out and dump a VIA driver package into it? Doesn't that solve the problem of finding exactly the sole matching drivers? Just a speculation, but would that work?
Quote:

In reply to "Actually, I just recalled your box boots from CF so you're not much constrained by flash size - why not install a 4GB CF card and just do a full XP install, or a smaller nLite version? I must be missing something."
Installing a nLite XP or full XP on a CF is not a very good idea as the CF card can only stand a certain number of writes before it eventually "wears" out (the paging file alone will destroy the CF as it constantly writes to the disk (CF)). XPe does not write to the flash (CF or DOM or DoC) as it uses a ramdrive.
I was thinking in terms of lesser of two evils - if it's a matter of not being able to use the box at all. I've read various debates on how serious the risk of wearing out the flash is, and if the worst came to pass, a new CF isn't too spendy. Can the ramdrive and write filter be added on to a regular installation?
Quote:

That does not mean that applications cannot be added (depending on flash capacity) AND ramdrive capacity by disabling the EWF (or FBWF) and re-enabling (commit) after they are installed.
Unfortunately:
(a) the ramdrive size cannot be changed as it is set during the image build phase
The RAMDRIVE size can be changed in the Wyse build as I recall, in a control panel.
Quote:

(b) I would need a working XPe image (one that boots on my platform) before I can add ("stuff") additional drivers and applications which was why I posted in this forum for (Ref: My post Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:52 pm).

So why not install XPe on a working platform and build my own image from drivers etc from VIA? XPe is now EOL and most importantly, MS dictates it being used only by OEMs.

Hope that clears up your questions.

I may just go Linux (ThinClient or TS-O-Matic for the image) but it will not run MJ unless I install a VM or Wine which not only defeats the purpose of
Linux (it's like scratching your right ear with your left hand - could have used your right hand in the first place!), but MJ has serious performance hits in running in a VM like latency, etc. Pure Linux TC's can run MJ only through RDP which again defeats the purpose of having a standalone MJ headless unit.
I need to think about it or experiment with a bunch of prebuilt XPe images. Unfortunately, I cannot contact Maxspeed Corp as they are defunct, and I cannot contact RETEK (OEM who built my image for Maxspeed) as they are also defunct even though I have the COA etc of original XPe image.
Sounds like you know what you need to do, I'm just try to learn what I can through listening to the descriptions of others' projects. Here's one thing that I wonder about with the driver-matching business - how is it you can boot any x86 PC from just one floppy holding code that was written 15 years ago, if having exact drivers is needed? Doesn't that mean there is core functionality that is common to all x86 mobos that at least permits them to boot and run, even without vendor drivers? That may show how little I really know, but that's where I am.

One other thing that I have tried to understand - how Wyse locks their units against cross-imaging. Somewhere the box and image conspire to decide whether they are authorized to pair up. You can't install their VX0 XPe image on their VX0 Linux or WinCE boxes for instance, even though they are identical hardware (you can take the XPe flash from the V90 and it will run any of the others like the V50 or V30, you just can't image them directly with XPe). If your TC does something similar, or if this functionality resides in the image build, launching the linux process might not work, is that right? Maybe what you're talking about is different than the linux-based process I see when the standard imaging is under way. Anyway, when I first read your post, I had thought you would parse the Wyse image file for the real meat, then use some other imaging means to get it onto your flash.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:48 am    Post subject: Magicjack support, tips, tricks, and hacks

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murugan
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key is understanding XPe so here's a link on the basics of why DOS "can boot without specific drivers" (still needs scsi, etc) and why Win XP can boot from a CD-ROM (it has all the basic drivers it needs (see boot up messages on install). To compare apples to apples you may want to refer to:

Building Devices Using Windows XP Embedded Lab from https://www.facultyresourcecenter.com/curriculum/pfv.aspx?ID=6575&c1=en-us&c2=0&Login=

I'm sure there are other XPe resources if you Google'd for them but Sean Liming is one of the better known experts out there.

or take a look at slide 24 (TAP (Target Analyser) - https://www.facultyresourcecenter.com/curriculum/pfv.aspx?ID=6565&c1=en-us&c2=0&Login=

If you really wanted to delve into XPe, you could read "Windows XP Embedded Advanced - By Sean D. Liming"

"how Wyse locks their units against cross-imaging" - most OEM's now use BIOS tattoo(s) - a work around is OEMBIOS and then dd the image
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macrat
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Don't think he can make these thin clients any more... Reply with quote

I build computers, and the parts for these thin clients are being blocked by some kiosk developer companies. Patents are owned by a handful of companies that develop micro-form-factor and kiosk terminal computers, and are policed by their lawyers.

Especially Microsoft's, which frowns on the distribution of Windows XP without genuine COAs assigned to the manufacturer. He could be tied up by a lawsuit that prevents him talking to us about the possible suit against him.

I know the MJ Plus now defeats the purpose for these thin clients, but they have many other useful applications.
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murugan
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Don't think he can make these thin clients any more... Reply with quote

macrat wrote:
I know the MJ Plus now defeats the purpose for these thin clients, but they have many other useful applications.


I'm not sure that the MJ+ has made the MJ Thin Client (TC) obsolete - as a matter of fact the TC can still be used with a wireless PCI adapter in the expansion slot (I'm talking only of the Neoware and Maxspeed TCs I'm familiar with) and have a telephone station without having to run telephone wires from the MJ+ / Router to maybe the guest bedroom. I did go this route (my router is in my basement and my home office on another floor) and it's far less expensive especially if the telephone is on the opposite side of the house.
I haven't tried a USB Network adapter on the TC but I'm sure it will work - depends on how much space the USB drivers (and maybe a setup program bloat) would require on the DOM or CF card.
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murugan
magicJack Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

conniemadagain wrote:
YUP ... I still have mine from alpman w/upgraded memory ...
guess i should sell it ...

:lol:



Alpman had managed to integrate both the Maxterm and Neoware architectures in his uDrive images. I need an 256 Mb XPe SP2 image for a Maxterm 8300 Thinclient - the Maxterm uses a Compact Flash not a DOM. Anyone have one to lend/spare/sell? I would prefer a 256 Mb CF image with XPe SP2. Or anyone know how to modify an existing HP T57xx or Wyse XPe SP2 256 Mb image for a 256 CF?
Connie/Stxfarmer - Any help would be appreciated since Alpman hasn't surfaced in a while.
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