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on registration: "I elect to accept free outgoing servi

 
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ReubenL
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 3
Location: NW WA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: on registration: "I elect to accept free outgoing servi Reply with quote

Question what IS this question asking me?
"I elect to accept free outgoing service (recommended)"

below is a chat-transcript, of a few minutes ago with magicJack support.
nobody knows what this question is actually asking...! (technically, legally, or otherwise)

...anyone?

~Reuben

here's a link to a screenshot
from this review page



Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Malik'
Malik: Hello, how may I help you?
Reuben L.: hi, Malik! one question, during setup of the magicJack.... what does this option mean? ... "I elect to accept free outgoing service (recommended)"
Reuben L.: what does that mean?
Malik: Hi, Reuben.
Malik: That is for you to be able to call long distance calls.
Reuben L.: that doesn't make sense... what happens if I do NOT choose that option?
Malik: Please do not worry, that is just a confirmation for you to make long distance calls.
Malik: You still can make and receive calls for free, Reuben.
Reuben L.: but it doesn't say "free long distance", it says "free outgoing service". there's no such thing as "long distance" anyway- because it's VOIP (internet-based).
Malik: Yes, that's the same.
Reuben L.: so, what happens if I leave that box UN-checked?
Malik: Nothing, it will not affect your magicJack service.
Malik: Please try to place a call now.
Reuben L.: you are telling me that there is an option in the registration process, with a checkbox for that option that will make NO DIFFERENCE whether it's checked or not?????
Malik: Thank you for your patience. I will transfer you to a higher level of support. Please hold while I transfer you.
Reuben L.: ah, thank you, Malik....
Please wait while I transfer the chat to the best suited site operator.
You are now chatting with 'Cassy'
Reuben L.: greetings, Cassy...
Cassy: Hi, there. Cassy here. I'll be assisting you today. How are you?
Cassy: Please hold for a moment while I'll review your previous chats. Thanks!
Reuben L.: I'm well. take your time...
Reuben L.: I think Malik was trying to be helpful- but my question is very specific, and perhaps even somewhat technical in nature, and I don't believe he knows the answer...
Cassy: hi, Reuben
Cassy: Are you on the registration process, right?
Reuben L.: yes, I am. not yet completed, as this question has me wondering what it means... a web-search yields other people confused by it, and no answers....!
Cassy: Are you referring to the "I elect to accept free outgoing service ?
Reuben L.: YES, that's exactly my question. what IS that??
Reuben L.: your setup .PDF just says "Make sure to check the box to elect outgoing service" ...
Cassy: That goes for the free outgoing calls anywhere in the US, Canada, Puerto Rico and us virgin island
Reuben L.: why does it ask me that? who's going to buy a magicJack, and NOT USE IT TO MAKE CALLS...? do you see why I don't understand this question?
Reuben L.: it's like buying a gallon of milk, and you having to sign a document stating "yes, I would like to be able to open the gallon jug and drink pour it into a cup, and maybe even drink milk".
Cassy: No, just a simple agreement to check, its not going to be complicated, Reuben.
Reuben L.: I understand that checking a box is 'not complicated'. what I want to know, is WHAT AM I AGREEING TO by checking that box.
Cassy: Just for your free outgoing calls within the US and canada
Reuben L.: if, as you say, it is "only to allow free outgoing calls" ... which is what the entire purpose of the magicJack IS... then, why is it asking me? it worries me.
Cassy: please don't worry it will not affect the service, it seems like a confirmation on your future outgoing calls
Reuben L.: is it perhaps something that your attorneys had to include, to satisfy agreements with local telephone-companies? it is either a meaningless, or a confusing question, and, if it doesn't need to be there- it should be removed from the registration-process.
Cassy: it's not meaningless but that is something you shouldn't be worrying, click on there and accept it then it will leads you to finish the process
Reuben L.: I'm sorry, Cassy- you and Malik keep telling me "don't worry, just check the box" ... but you can't tell me why a telephone-service is asking me if I would like to use telephone-service. I am concerned about what it ACTUALLY MEANS, and so far, no one can tell me.
Cassy: It is really nothing to worry, as I've said it won't affect the entire service of your device
Reuben L.: what happens if I do NOT check that box?
Cassy: you can click on the Next, Reuben.
Cassy: That will lead you to the next steps
Reuben L.: I know that clicking 'next' will lead me to the next steps. what is going to be DIFFERENT about my magicJack service, if I do NOT check that option?
Cassy: Nothing, it won't do any diference
Reuben L.: what?? then why does it ask me??
Cassy: That's part of the registration
Reuben L.: if it makes NO DIFFERENCE, then WHY BOTHER ASKING ME THE QUESTION?
Cassy: Why don't you try to proceed, Reuben?
Reuben L.: because I'm being asked a question that I don't know how to answer, and no one can tell me what the question is asking.
Cassy: There's really no issue on it, Reuben.
Reuben L.: so, once again: WHAT will I NOT be able to do, if I UN-CHECK that option ("I elect to accept free outgoing service (recommended)" ), and proceed with registration of the magicJack?
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Magicjack support, tips, tricks, and hacks


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billinjax
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I helped a friend register a new magicJack yesterday and wondered about this too. I went with the recommended and checked it.
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HolmanGT
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1127
Location: Saint George, UT

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have wondered about that from the very first MagicJack I set up.

I never had the nerve to say no figured I would end up with a One-Way MagicJack, not terrible useful that way.

What do you want to bet that Dan's lawyers know. Rolling Eyes



PS - Have you ever noticed the way we mere mortals refer to Dan Barislow (sp?) like he was and old friend. i.e. I remember the email I sent Dan the other day... Like this multi-millionaire would even bother to look at an email from a nobody, much less bother to respond to it. Some times I wonder about us/me MJ users. Wink
_________________
- George -

HolmanGT - St. George, UT MJ-Area/Prefix 435-275
ooma-Area/Prefix 435-579
Baja Broadband, up-1mb dn-10mb, on days with a good tail wind.
MJ on HP T5730 2GBF/2GBR Thin Client XPe SP2 Router Dlink Dir-655
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ReubenL
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 3
Location: NW WA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billinjax, and HolmanGT - I think I've found an answer- in the Terms Of Service, in section 3(b) and section 4, it mentions that it is (if I understand it correctly) simply for the option to enable calls, at no charge, to other magicJack users worldwide (not restricted to landline/wireless numbers in USA/Canada, etc.).

(so: who would NOT want this enabled? why is it an option? why isn't it explained right there next to the checkbox...? why do I care so much? don't answer that...! )

http://www.magicjack.com/tos/

here:

3. Internet Communications Feature
*****
b) Outgoing Calls: magicOut

"Once you have registered your magicJack device you have agreed to these Terms of Service. You now have the option of registering for the feature to make
free outgoing calls over the Internet. You can make free calls to other magicJack device users located anywhere in the world,
and to subscribers on traditional telephone networks or wireless networks in the United States. You will not have the ability to call any number that would require the addition of any charges to your phone bill, such as 900 or 976 numbers or any other "fee per call" type service.

4. What Is Free and What is Not:
The magicJack device allows you to receive for free incoming calls using the phone number we assign to you.
If you register for magicJack outgoing service ('magicOut"), the magicJack device
allows you to make free outgoing calls to other magicJack device users located anywhere in the world,

and the subscribers on traditional telephone networks or cellular networks in the United States. We may provide for a fee, premium prepaid services, powered by YMAX Communications Corp. ("YMAX"), including International Calling and Conferencing services and the rates for those services will be governed by YMAX's effective price lists or tariffs and are not governed by this Agreement. magicJack may make available to you, for an additional fee, enhanced versions of the magicJack Software ("Upgraded Software") which provide new features and functions. "
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HolmanGT
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1127
Location: Saint George, UT

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReubenL,

Well after all that work of digging up the information it is good to see you still have a sense of humor left.

"who would NOT want this enabled? why is it an option? why isn't it explained right there next to the checkbox...? why do I care so much? don't answer that...!"

One thing that strikes me as odd like you who would say no, I thought that is what I was buying. If you say no to it you might just as well send Dan and anonymous check and call it a day.

One other thing that caught my eye it it mentions free call in the USA with no mention of Canada - or did I miss something.
_________________
- George -

HolmanGT - St. George, UT MJ-Area/Prefix 435-275
ooma-Area/Prefix 435-579
Baja Broadband, up-1mb dn-10mb, on days with a good tail wind.
MJ on HP T5730 2GBF/2GBR Thin Client XPe SP2 Router Dlink Dir-655
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ReubenL
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 3
Location: NW WA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HolmanGT: I gotta have a sense of humor- especially when expecting perfection from a box that lets you talk on the phone for 20 bucks a year...!

as for the US/CA calling- I've found that nearly everyplace it mentions the USA, it also mentions Canada- and there's a Canadian magicJack website, too.

~R.
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HolmanGT
MagicJack Sensei


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1127
Location: Saint George, UT

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReubenL wrote:
HolmanGT: I gotta have a sense of humor- especially when expecting perfection from a box that lets you talk on the phone for 20 bucks a year...!

as for the US/CA calling- I've found that nearly everyplace it mentions the USA, it also mentions Canada- and there's a Canadian magicJack website, too.

~R.


Looks like discrimination to me. The very first thing that hits you in the face on the Canadian site is a telephone number to call them. "What's with that" Wink

PS - I didn't know they had their own site. Show you how small my world has become.
_________________
- George -

HolmanGT - St. George, UT MJ-Area/Prefix 435-275
ooma-Area/Prefix 435-579
Baja Broadband, up-1mb dn-10mb, on days with a good tail wind.
MJ on HP T5730 2GBF/2GBR Thin Client XPe SP2 Router Dlink Dir-655
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mberlant
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 829
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The requirement to separately request outbound service and inbound service could be a way for MJ to exploit loopholes in the FCC rules that govern VoIP services. Other service providers had to perform these gymnastics in order to avoid having to pay certain taxes or having to provide certain services.

By separating DID service from dial-out service from member-to-member service, a company can avoid the expense of supporting E911 (Skype, StanaPhone, etc.). By not offering dial-out and/or DID service (FWD, etc.), a company can avoid paying (and charging for) certain taxes and fees (taxes in sheep's clothing), like USF and FET on basic service.

For example, StanaPhone began service as a fully integrated DID/dial-out/member-to-member service. They assigned members a real phone number in downstate New York and used this number as the member's User Name in SIP registration and for outbound Caller ID. When E911 was forced upon VoIP providers, StanaPhone re-engineered their entire system to divorce the three service modules from each other. They assigned unrelated User IDs to everyone and removed the member's DID number from the outbound Caller ID. That allowed them to be requalified as a data service and made them exempt from spending the considerable money necessary to support 911, which most members had no use for and did not wish to pay for.

At a service price of $20 per year there is very little room for paying out these "nuisance" fees and taxes, so I bet that this exercise keeps them from "qualifying" to pay these fees and bump up our rates to pay for them. In fact, given that they do not participate in Caller Name ID (in either direction), I am rather surprised that they supply the DID number in the outbound Caller ID, which makes them liable to support 911 (which I have no use for).
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AlaninKY
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me


Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Louisville, KY USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well on all my Jacks, I have always checked "I elect to accept free outgoing service (recommended)"
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mberlant
Dan Should Pay Me


Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 829
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I commented yesterday (two postings before this one), sometimes these gymnastics are introduced to avoid taxes and fees. Just now I had occasion to look at the ToS once again, and found this passage:
magicJack_ToS wrote:
The goods and services offered by magicJack provide a multimedia experience which includes a voice over Internet information service feature. It is not a telecommunications service and is subject to different regulatory treatment from telecommunications services.
This pretty much confirms my supposition.
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donotclickjim
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:41 pm    Post subject: Unchecking "I elect to accept free outgoing service&quo Reply with quote

FYI: I unchecked "I elect to accept free outgoing service (recommended)" during setup and it does exactly what you might expect. Allow ONLY incoming calls. i.e. you can't make outgoing calls unless you leave this check box checked.

The good news is I learned you can simply change this from your account page on their website.

No idea why anyone would want to only have an incoming magic jack but today I learned you can!
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donbotha.me
MagicJack Newbie


Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better late than never... ;+)

donotclickjim posted Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:41 pm: "No idea why anyone would want to only have an incoming magic jack but today I learned you can!"

Many call centers are set to only receive incoming calls; they cannot make outgoing calls.

Their "tech chat support agents" are a joke. Don't even get me started! During one chat, I asked to speak to a supervisor. He said, "Sad to say, but I AM the supervisor!"
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